Below is a proof read transcript of our conversation with 3 East Midlands Artists, Sarah Camplin, Lauren Foster and Claire Quigley. Listen to the episode here:
Welcome to red star podcast episode 3.
Muhammed Mustafa – 0:18
In this episode, we are joined by 3 very special guests from the East Midlands art scene.
Muhammed Mustafa – 0:25
Clara Quigley, Sarah Camplin, and Lauren Foster.
Muhammed Mustafa – 0:30
Together, we will explore the intersection of art and culture, particularly within the context of working class communities in the UK.
Muhammed Mustafa – 0:39
Stay tuned as we engage in this insightful conversation with our esteemed educationalist and producer, Ben Stevenson.
Muhammed Mustafa – 0:47
We hope you enjoy this thought provoking session.
Ben Stevenson – 0:51
Would you like to start by introducing yourselves?
Sarah Camplin – 0:55
Let me introduce Sarah Camplin.
Sarah Camplin – 0:58
I’ve been, you know, I’ve always been expressed myself in some way or the other, but it’s only in the last, I don’t know, 7 years that I’ve tried to it’s not about making money, but make a living make a bit of a living from my art which has been, all sorts of different arts, crafts, again talk about craft that can sometimes be a devalue of some of an art but so mosaics, I’ve more recently started getting into tapestry weaving through Clare.
Sarah Camplin – 1:31
I’ve also done poetry, comedy, singing, all sorts all sorts of stuff.
Sarah Camplin – 1:41
So I don’t I don’t, you know, I still like to do a lot of different, things and work run workshops in lots of different areas as well.
Sarah Camplin – 1:50
So I’d say I’m a bit of a freelance artist of various
Ben Stevenson – 1:54
Lauren, what about you?
Lauren Foster – 1:57
I am a writer of poetry, prose, and lyrics.
Lauren Foster – 2:02
I’m, I’m a multi-instrumentalist.
Lauren Foster – 2:06
I’m a I play kick drum and, vocals in the Cars at 8 Paris, which
Claire Quigley – 2:14
are a
Lauren Foster – 2:14
psychedelic garage punk band.
Lauren Foster – 2:18
I’m also a visual artist, but that’s not what I spend most of my energies on now.
Lauren Foster – 2:30
I recently, I’ve been a poet in residence on the Kindness Project, which was a series of workshops leading up to an event on, the Bell Foundry Estate in Loughborough, which is a council estate, and at one point was considered to be one of the worst sink estates in the country.
Lauren Foster – 2:54
And there was quite a lot of problems on that estate.
Lauren Foster – 2:58
So that that was an interesting experience.
Claire Quigley – 3:01
And
Lauren Foster – 3:02
that was actually funded by, a police funding pop for community activities.
Lauren Foster – 3:11
I can’t remember what it was called now.
Lauren Foster – 3:14
It might come to me as a as I’m going along.
Lauren Foster – 3:18
I recently participated in Charnwood Arts Emerging Artist Program.
Lauren Foster – 3:25
I was, most of the other participants were visual artists, And I’ve been shortlisted on the, recently well, the last couple of weeks on the Creative Futures Writers’ Award, and Creative Futures award is for writers from underrepresented backgrounds.
Ben Stevenson – 3:50
Excellent.
Lauren Foster – 3:52
I’ve got a master’s degree in creative writing.
Lauren Foster – 3:55
I went back in my late thirties.
Lauren Foster – 3:58
And so, really, I mean, I have I’ve been playing instruments since I was a teenage, but I haven’t really done anything with it as far as getting out there and gigging until middle age.
Lauren Foster – 4:12
I didn’t have yeah.
Lauren Foster – 4:14
Because I didn’t have a massive amount of support with it with any of the art stuff growing up.
Lauren Foster – 4:20
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 4:21
Only sort of our art’s a nice hobby, but it like, not something that you do seriously.
Lauren Foster – 4:28
Not you know?
Lauren Foster – 4:30
Wasn’t there wasn’t any support there.
Lauren Foster – 4:32
Wasn’t considered to be a proper job.
Ben Stevenson – 4:37
In fact, I remember, I’ve had, in fact, let me just, let Claire introduce herself first, and then, I’ll come back on that.
Ben Stevenson – 4:37
No.
Ben Stevenson – 4:47
Claire, do you wanna introduce yourself?
Claire Quigley – 4:49
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 4:50
So, my experience, I completed, an arts degree, art and music, so creative arts, which I came to Nottingham to do.
Claire Quigley – 5:03
And then I ended up working doing artwork for printers for quite a while and graphic design alongside information in a whole range of different settings, public, private, whatever.
Claire Quigley – 5:20
And I got interested in weaving something like 35 years ago and really took to tapestry weaving, and I’ve done that off and on Sometimes as part of the local weaver, spinners, and dyers guild, about linking with other people who are interested in textiles and a creative things.
Claire Quigley – 5:42
And I’ve exhibited in art, sort of open art exhibitions every now and then.
Claire Quigley – 5:50
I guess in the last 10 or so years, I’ve tried to start sort of framing up sort of my weaving and getting it out there and getting reaction.
Claire Quigley – 5:59
I’ve done kind of Sherwood Art Week a couple of times and that kind of thing.
Claire Quigley – 6:05
I was supported by the Creative Quarter on a mentoring scheme when that ran, but, of course, that was European funding.
Claire Quigley – 6:14
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 6:15
So but very into creative things.
Claire Quigley – 6:18
I mean, in my I was very into photography and photo montage in during my, degree.
Claire Quigley – 6:26
I’m also a musician.
Claire Quigley – 6:28
I play more sort of folk and traditional Irish, session stuff.
Claire Quigley – 6:35
I have been in bands before.
Claire Quigley – 6:36
I’m not particularly at the moment, but who knows what the future brings?
Claire Quigley – 6:41
So that’s me, really.
Ben Stevenson – 6:43
Excellent.
Ben Stevenson – 6:44
So, I mean, I suppose there’s quite a lot of similarity there in terms of, your experiences.
Ben Stevenson – 6:52
I mean, I suppose it says something about even just being, you know, an artist is that we’ve got 3 people who are in a relatively similar geographical area, but have, you know, vastly different experiences and, skill sets and particular mediums and everything else.
Ben Stevenson – 7:12
I mean, how do you find sort of balancing those kind of distinct things?
Ben Stevenson – 7:17
And I think, also, one thing that we kind of touched upon there is sort of the attitudes that people have for, towards particularly working class people doing, the arts.
Ben Stevenson – 7:31
And that’s something that I think we internalize ourselves, you know, in terms of, oh, I couldn’t possibly be a poet.
Ben Stevenson – 7:39
That’s not a real job.
Ben Stevenson – 7:40
I couldn’t possibly be an artist or a musician or, you know, or an actor or, you know, you you’ve gotta be able to pay the wages and get something that’s pensionable.
Ben Stevenson – 7:49
So there is that kind of attitudinal barrier that we are that that’s faced as well.
Ben Stevenson – 7:56
I mean, let what kind of other barriers do you think artists are, facing today?
Sarah Camplin – 8:06
Well, just to add to what I was saying, obviously, through the work that I’ve done, the comedy, the mosaics, I’ve joined forces with other, with voluntary groups, like Nottingham women’s centre and the people that generally use the women’s centre, are generally from more deprived backgrounds.
Sarah Camplin – 8:34
And, there’s not a lot of funding for arts in just isn’t it just one example local example, if you’d like, where, through arts and creativity, women can connect with other women on a level playing field.
Sarah Camplin – 8:53
That’s one of the things that that that the arts bring.
Sarah Camplin – 8:57
It’s in on that level where every you know, no matter what background, we can all listen to piece of music and enjoy a piece of music together or create a a quilt together or, you know and the bonding.
Sarah Camplin – 9:12
So, you know, that that’s a an example of where, you know, some good stuff’s going on.
Sarah Camplin – 9:19
But the barrier there, you know, to reaching those is what we use as about a value in society, which is money.
Sarah Camplin – 9:28
You know?
Sarah Camplin – 9:30
How we, the transaction.
Sarah Camplin – 9:33
That’s the mage that’s been one of the major barriers, I think, that I’ve come across.
Sarah Camplin – 9:40
It’s the funding.
Sarah Camplin – 9:44
And it being about that.
Sarah Camplin – 9:45
You know?
Ben Stevenson – 9:46
Yes.
Sarah Camplin – 9:46
It being set against other priorities.
Sarah Camplin – 9:49
You know, the research that I wanted to start, I just want to I put in the chat some result.
Sarah Camplin – 9:53
I’ll put it I’ll put it back in the chat.
Sarah Camplin – 9:55
So there was some research done by Equity, and they were saying that there’s been a 16% cut in real terms across the UK in funding for the arts.
Sarah Camplin – 10:06
That’s only since 2017.
Sarah Camplin – 10:08
So I think there’s been a consistent, cut in funding, available.
Sarah Camplin – 10:16
And also alongside that, under austerity, we had I remember them talking about it.
Sarah Camplin – 10:21
Oh, we’ve got a lack of science teachers, lack of math teachers, so we’re gonna prioritize STEM subjects in schools.
Sarah Camplin – 10:27
So that but it’s not why should it be a priority?
Sarah Camplin – 10:29
Why can’t it be alongside?
Sarah Camplin – 10:32
Why does it have to be a priority?
Sarah Camplin – 10:34
So, ultimately, it isn’t always just about money.
Sarah Camplin – 10:36
Of course, it’s not just about money, But that’s what it seems to just become down to in how we talk about, access to the arts.
Sarah Camplin – 10:47
Oh, would you think we haven’t got the money?
Claire Quigley – 10:50
But I think there’s a broader thing that everything suddenly had to become financially viable.
Claire Quigley – 10:56
We abandoned the idea of things being a service and putting funding into them, things like the public libraries and the space community spaces for these things to happen.
Claire Quigley – 11:07
That’s all changed, and the art seems to be one of the first things to go when there’s a funding challenge, particularly with councils.
Sarah Camplin – 11:17
Well, yes.
Sarah Camplin – 11:18
Nottingham City Council for 1, where the libraries, like you say, and the leisure centres, places where people could go and meet other people.
Claire Quigley – 11:29
I but I think it’s a common feeling in the public sector that lots of councils, as soon as they’ve got a deficit, there’s, you know I mean, the new Birmingham library opened.
Claire Quigley – 11:29
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 11:41
And within several months, suddenly half the staff were cut, the hours were changed because they just didn’t have the money to sustain it.
Claire Quigley – 11:48
It was really sad.
Ben Stevenson – 11:48
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 11:51
Lauren, I think you had yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 11:53
You wanted to say something.
Lauren Foster – 11:54
I’m gonna end up forgetting what I wanted to say.
Ben Stevenson – 11:54
Yeah?
Lauren Foster – 11:54
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 11:57
No worries.
Lauren Foster – 12:01
I think I want I mean, part of it does seem to be I remember listening a few years ago to Jarvis Cocker talking about art schools, and art schools really came up with, I mean, the aim was commercial rather than, you know, fine art, and it came up alongside, mass production, for things like I’m thinking of, like, tins designs of tins, posters, advertising, items.
Lauren Foster – 12:41
Things are collectible now as well because they have you know?
Lauren Foster – 12:46
And I and I think I’ve seem to think Loughborough Arts department is pretty much like that at the moment.
Lauren Foster – 12:56
And, but I mean, even that is devaluing fine art, isn’t it?
Sarah Camplin – 13:02
Well, there’s a lack of creativity there, isn’t it?
Sarah Camplin – 13:04
Because you’re working then with the client, what the client wants.
Sarah Camplin – 13:07
So there’s a it’s a lot you’ve got a talent, but if it’s being
Ben Stevenson – 13:11
Well, again
Lauren Foster – 13:12
followed.
Lauren Foster – 13:13
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 13:13
Is isn’t it another example of the way in which, you know, both I mean, it’s almost how, you know, it’s almost a parody, isn’t it?
Ben Stevenson – 13:25
The commodity has become art, and art has become a commodity, in and that fusion between the 2, like you say, you know, for artists, it is almost about you know, you’ve got to look at how you can get funding, and you’ve got to compete for it because that’s the landscape.
Ben Stevenson – 13:45
And if that’s all you’re concentrating on and worrying on, then you’re not able to you know I suppose you could make plenty of art about that, but, you know, the process of filling in forms.
Ben Stevenson – 14:00
But there’s a that’s got a limited appeal, I think.
Claire Quigley – 14:06
I mean, I remember in my early days of weaving, trying to apply for grants for equipment because I had no equipment whatsoever.
Claire Quigley – 14:06
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 14:14
I mean, you don’t need a lot, but, you know, I was trying to get some sort of basic loom that I could weave on regularly.
Claire Quigley – 14:21
And I tried year on year for about 3 years, and I just thought stuff fit.
Claire Quigley – 14:26
And in between, I just wave on random things, and I wave on a clothes source to begin and just adapted.
Claire Quigley – 14:33
And in the end, he sort of sent me down another path.
Claire Quigley – 14:37
So, yeah, there we go.
Ben Stevenson – 14:41
Well, there’s something about necessity being the, mother of invention.
Sarah Camplin – 14:48
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 14:48
Absolutely.
Sarah Camplin – 14:49
But all that untapped potential, that untapped creativity, you know, it’s a false economy to use these terms, the capitalist terms, if you like.
Sarah Camplin – 14:49
Absolutely.
Sarah Camplin – 14:59
You know, the impact on our mental health when we have access to the arts, is you know, and the impact that that has society when we don’t have that access to the arts and leisure and social activities that we’re seeing today, whether that be disaffected youth, and then alongside that disaffected youth, people could get involved in all sorts of extremism online.
Sarah Camplin – 15:25
I know I know it sounds like I’m going off on a tangent, but I think for me, it is about, you know, what kind of society we want.
Sarah Camplin – 15:32
Do we want society where there’s hope where creativity and self-expression is valued, and people being able to be themselves, everything’s boxed up.
Sarah Camplin – 15:46
I mean, they can modify autism.
Sarah Camplin – 15:48
They can modify neurodiversity.
Sarah Camplin – 15:53
Every yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 15:54
It is everything’s become fragmented, you know, as well.
Claire Quigley – 15:58
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 16:00
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 16:02
So, yeah.
Lauren Foster – 16:06
Let’s see.
Lauren Foster – 16:07
It’s that the only value a lot of people think for art is that seemingly, that it helps people out of depression so they can just go back to in a part of production.
Sarah Camplin – 16:25
Okay.
Ben Stevenson – 16:26
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 16:26
It sort of, they have to acknowledge the therapeutic benefits of it, but then they haven’t acknowledged the fundamental benefit
Lauren Foster – 16:36
of it.
Ben Stevenson – 16:38
And the reason why it’s a therapeutic benefit must be something intrinsic within us as humans.
Ben Stevenson – 16:45
You know?
Ben Stevenson – 16:45
When I look at the cave paintings in Lahav, I don’t see you know, I see something that a human only humans could have done, you know, in that sense.
Ben Stevenson – 16:57
But, you know, there is something, you know, without getting too there’s something universal about it, isn’t there?
Ben Stevenson – 17:06
You know?
Ben Stevenson – 17:07
Every country has its own songs, poems, music, dance, everything.
Ben Stevenson – 17:16
And I think, you know, Sarah made an important point there in terms of, you know, what do we want to be known as, you know, as British people?
Ben Stevenson – 17:29
Certainly, for most Europeans, it’s probably, you know, drug culture around pubs and clubs.
Ben Stevenson – 17:40
It would be nice, you know, if we were to be appreciated for all of the, art and culture that we have in this country.
Sarah Camplin – 17:50
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 17:51
I was just thinking about, folk art, how that you know, I mean, Claire, you’re a folk musician.
Sarah Camplin – 17:57
That’s one of the but it has that devaluing.
Sarah Camplin – 18:01
It’s, oh, it’s a folk thing.
Sarah Camplin – 18:04
It’s, you know, I mean, that’s that goes particularly as well, you know, this get this is something that’s gone on for centuries that that, devaluing, and misogyny as well sometimes if you’re talking about arts that women have done.
Sarah Camplin – 18:23
You know, the skills that they bring are devalued.
Sarah Camplin – 18:26
I mean, making a sock is a very, very difficult complex thing to do.
Sarah Camplin – 18:33
It’s akin to, like, plumbing and engineering, but it’s devalued, you know, doing anything.
Lauren Foster – 18:40
But it but it would be it would be mass production that started to devalue it, wouldn’t it?
Lauren Foster – 18:46
Yes.
Sarah Camplin – 18:47
You’re absolutely right.
Lauren Foster – 18:48
One point, being an artisan must have been a pretty much and everyday job given how many buildings there are that, have got intricate brickwork and, you know, design, wood carvings Mosaics.
Lauren Foster – 19:09
You know, as well as everything that had to exist, really, that people used.
Claire Quigley – 19:16
Well, there were guilds
Sarah Camplin – 19:17
that they made.
Claire Quigley – 19:20
Sorry.
Claire Quigley – 19:20
There were guilds to support each craft, weren’t there?
Lauren Foster – 19:24
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 19:25
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 19:25
At one stage.
Claire Quigley – 19:26
I mean, I come from Norwich originally, and because of the proximity to Europe, there was lots of connection with the guilds from Europe.
Claire Quigley – 19:34
Oh, okay.
Claire Quigley – 19:35
Lots of trading and lots of support.
Claire Quigley – 19:38
But often, you know, there was a whole, you know, Mason’s Guild or whatever, Shoemaker’s Guild.
Claire Quigley – 19:46
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 19:47
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 19:48
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 19:48
I mean, I was looking.
Lauren Foster – 19:48
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 19:49
I wanted a bees and broom or a besom or however you pronounce it.
Lauren Foster – 19:54
And so I was having a look to see if there was anyone doing workshops on it.
Lauren Foster – 20:00
And I ended up you probably have you come across the endangered, crafts, website?
Lauren Foster – 20:09
You know?
Lauren Foster – 20:09
And all the things all the things there that needs to exist, There would have been real high value skills.
Lauren Foster – 20:18
At one point.
Lauren Foster – 20:20
And now people just think, you know, just buy some cheap rubbish made in China.
Claire Quigley – 20:25
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 20:26
Well, there’s a dual channel thing going on.
Claire Quigley – 20:29
There’s a oh, suddenly after lockdown when people started to get more into creativity, suddenly the value hand of handmade crafts and arts are much more valued now.
Claire Quigley – 20:44
It’s that value has gone up.
Claire Quigley – 20:46
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 20:47
But then there’s also the old people want cheap clothes, cheap stuff, cheap stuff.
Claire Quigley – 20:52
So there’s that running in parallel.
Claire Quigley – 20:55
So I don’t know that sort of says something about our market, doesn’t it?
Claire Quigley – 21:00
You know, are the people who buy cheap clothes also gonna buy a lovely piece of handmade pottery?
Lauren Foster – 21:07
Sometimes, but not as often, I suppose.
Claire Quigley – 21:12
No.
Claire Quigley – 21:13
It’s sort of who are the markets out there.
Lauren Foster – 21:16
Well,
Ben Stevenson – 21:17
I remember, the story in Terry Pratchett, that, commander Vimes would always tell about his boots, how a decent pair of boots would cost $5, but his wages was only $4.5 4 and a half dollars.
Ben Stevenson – 21:40
So he’d get cheap shoes every year that cost $2.
Ben Stevenson – 21:44
And by the end of the year, his shoes were basically worn out, and he’d have to get a new pair of shoes.
Ben Stevenson – 21:50
And that was why he was still poor and didn’t have a decent pair of boots.
Ben Stevenson – 21:55
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 21:57
And it is a bit like that, isn’t it, for for people?
Ben Stevenson – 22:00
It’s that, you know, when we’ve got this kind of backdrop and you could almost understand why, I suppose, almost some parents I’ve heard some parents and friends of mine who’ve expressed similar things of, you know, oh, they’re into x, y, and zed.
Ben Stevenson – 22:19
But, you know, they’ve gotta be realistic.
Ben Stevenson – 22:21
It’s like, can you make a career out of it?
Ben Stevenson – 22:24
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 22:26
And that’s I think that is a little bit of a of a of a shift, and I think it is a reflection of almost worsening times for the working class.
Claire Quigley – 22:35
Yes.
Claire Quigley – 22:36
Absolutely.
Claire Quigley – 22:37
Austerity has not helped that at all.
Sarah Camplin – 22:39
No.
Sarah Camplin – 22:40
Absolutely.
Sarah Camplin – 22:41
No.
Sarah Camplin – 22:42
I just want to, pick up on something Lauren was saying about the arts you know, to get a career in the arts now, like you’re saying, it’s gotta have that therapeutic aspect to it rather than art for art in itself.
Sarah Camplin – 23:04
You know?
Sarah Camplin – 23:04
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 23:04
Art in Communal.
Sarah Camplin – 23:06
Art in itself, like communal art.
Sarah Camplin – 23:08
Community arts.
Sarah Camplin – 23:09
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 23:10
Community art.
Lauren Foster – 23:11
I am a big guy.
Lauren Foster – 23:13
I’m a big believer in QATR.
Lauren Foster – 23:17
But a lot of the time, it ends up being people’s only source of income, doesn’t it?
Sarah Camplin – 23:22
In the art.
Claire Quigley – 23:22
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 23:23
Well, it’s fair.
Sarah Camplin – 23:24
I mean, that’s the point I just wanted to make was about, you know, what I think was led on to a bit, touched on a bit was, you know, I’m looking at, doing some work, you know, some creative work as a as a job.
Sarah Camplin – 23:37
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 23:37
And it’s like you’ve got this social prescribing stuff now.
Sarah Camplin – 23:40
So you’ve got to push all the time that it’s something for people, like you say, with mental health problems to go and do so the government can tick a box to say, look.
Sarah Camplin – 23:49
We’ve provided some community time for the is that devaluing?
Sarah Camplin – 23:55
It’s well, it’s you know, that, what’s the word I’m looking for?
Sarah Camplin – 24:02
Where it’s become, the financial value, rather than, you know, and being boxed off rather than, you know, for me, bread and roses.
Sarah Camplin – 24:13
Like you were saying, Ben, we have a primal urge to express ourselves.
Sarah Camplin – 24:17
Other animals have culture too.
Sarah Camplin – 24:19
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 24:20
We have a culture.
Sarah Camplin – 24:21
And to deprive that culture is, like, harming us.
Sarah Camplin – 24:27
So that’s how I see it.
Sarah Camplin – 24:27
You know?
Ben Stevenson – 24:29
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 24:31
Definitely.
Ben Stevenson – 24:32
I think there is that definitely that.
Ben Stevenson – 24:34
And, you know, obviously, partly, I think, you know, we you have seen that backdrop of funding drying up in the in a sense, people are then more and more having to demonstrate, chase the funding model, whatever that is at the moment.
Ben Stevenson – 24:53
If that if there you know, is to use art therapy to, help deal with loneliness.
Ben Stevenson – 25:01
You know, again, it’s kind of shifting social problems around, isn’t it, from that perspective?
Ben Stevenson – 25:12
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 25:13
Go on, Claire.
Claire Quigley – 25:16
I was just gonna say, I mean, I think Arts Council particularly funding, people struggle not only that they’re competing with lots of people.
Claire Quigley – 25:16
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 25:27
The randomness of the decision making because it depends on what comes in that week.
Claire Quigley – 25:31
The bids are looked at against each other.
Claire Quigley – 25:35
So it’s all a bit hit and miss whether you hit the right week to get your bid seen.
Claire Quigley – 25:41
And often, the feedback is for somebody who hasn’t got a bid
Claire Quigley – 25:45
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 25:46
Or their bid hasn’t been successful.
Claire Quigley – 25:50
There’s nothing too much in the feedback to say that they could have done anything any different.
Claire Quigley – 25:54
It was just there were more suitable things that week.
Claire Quigley – 25:58
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 25:59
So
Claire Quigley – 26:01
that then affects the mental health of the artists.
Claire Quigley – 26:05
Exactly.
Ben Stevenson – 26:07
May maybe they should be socially prescribed about that.
Claire Quigley – 26:10
Grasp and say, right.
Claire Quigley – 26:11
I know what I’m gonna do now.
Ben Stevenson – 26:14
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 26:15
So then the funding system doesn’t make sense.
Claire Quigley – 26:19
Things start to unravel.
Ben Stevenson – 26:23
Go on, Lauren.
Ben Stevenson – 26:23
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 26:25
I just wanted to add that I know in in Leicestershire, the lion’s share of the arts funding goes to the curve, or I suppose I should fact check this.
Lauren Foster – 26:25
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 26:41
But that is saying to me like, a big sort of commercial enterprise anyway.
Lauren Foster – 26:48
They’re apparently was it the current financial direct or the last financial director claimed nearly a £1,000,000 off for gambling debt?
Lauren Foster – 26:57
So maybe that’s why, but I don’t I don’t know if you many of you knew that.
Lauren Foster – 27:03
Just No.
Lauren Foster – 27:03
Happen to see it.
Sarah Camplin – 27:05
No.
Sarah Camplin – 27:06
You get to that.
Lauren Foster – 27:07
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 27:07
8847,000 Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 27:12
For, gambling debts.
Lauren Foster – 27:14
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 27:17
But it seems to me I mean, they have, like, all the shows like the Lion King and such like.
Lauren Foster – 27:22
It’s way out of my, affordability unless I went to a matinee, I suppose.
Lauren Foster – 27:29
But if they’re getting, you know, the most of the funding from the Arts Council for Leicestershire, that that really does mean that there’s probably well, 100 and 100 and 100 of artists that that can’t access any funding.
Lauren Foster – 27:51
Because it’s really going to a major, you know, commercial enterprise.
Lauren Foster – 27:51
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 27:57
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 27:58
Well, we’ve got some similar, I think, in Nottingham.
Sarah Camplin – 28:01
Because I mean, you know, Claire is in Nottingham as well, so, obviously, you might not agree.
Sarah Camplin – 28:06
But there are certain things that always get money every year.
Sarah Camplin – 28:08
The Hockley hustle, there’s a the when women gather, just she Jude who runs that, she is always gets funding, always gets funding from the Arts Council.
Lauren Foster – 28:21
Right.
Sarah Camplin – 28:22
She’s very good.
Sarah Camplin – 28:23
Sometimes I think it’s who you know, like we’ve we like we touched on.
Sarah Camplin – 28:27
Who, you know, moving with those circles.
Sarah Camplin – 28:31
I have to say I’ve been a little bit out of the loop.
Sarah Camplin – 28:34
I used to be really involved in in stuff in Nottingham, organizing various gigs and working alongside, you know, other organizations.
Sarah Camplin – 28:43
So I’m a little bit out of the loop, so I can’t it’s difficult just but I know myself with my little business, you know, running workshops, one of the biggest things I face barriers I face, I think, is confidence, imposter syndrome, thinking, oh, I’m not gonna like you said, I’m not gonna bother going for the funding because I’m not I’m not a big enough name.
Sarah Camplin – 29:05
I haven’t got big enough presence or I don’t know if I’m gonna be able to use the right buzzwords and things like that.
Claire Quigley – 29:12
I think that the core problem is there just isn’t enough funding in the first place.
Claire Quigley – 29:17
You know, it’s diminished and diminished and diminished.
Claire Quigley – 29:19
I think it’s the lowest arts funding that I’ve seen probably in my lifetime, actually.
Claire Quigley – 29:24
It’s
Claire Quigley – 29:24
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 29:25
well it’s well below the average in Europe.
Ben Stevenson – 29:27
I mean, I think I was looking at that equity, that share that Sarah shared, and it said that
Sarah Camplin – 29:36
Let me share it again.
Ben Stevenson – 29:37
Yeah
Ben Stevenson – 29:39
It’s, they were campaigning to raise arts funding to naught 0.5 percent of GDP.
Ben Stevenson – 29:46
If you think that everybody on the in the general election agreed to raise GDP to defence spending to 3% of GDP from 2 a half percent.
Ben Stevenson – 29:58
And that was just waved through.
Ben Stevenson – 29:59
So and that includes all the money that goes to the Disney Corporation for filming there, you know, latest blockbuster here.
Ben Stevenson – 30:10
That that is also including the arts funding.
Lauren Foster – 30:13
Is it?
Lauren Foster – 30:14
It’s crazy, isn’t it?
Claire Quigley – 30:16
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 30:17
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 30:18
I’d just again, you have to fact check the figures because I can’t remember.
Lauren Foster – 30:24
But before 2010, I believe the arts sector was one of the fastest sort of growing, industries in in terms of the economy.
Lauren Foster – 30:38
And then suddenly, when the tours got in, there were no support anymore.
Lauren Foster – 30:45
So I really don’t know what the state of it is at the minute.
Lauren Foster – 30:50
But instead of instead of, like, you know, supporting and encouraging the arts, they really seem to set out to dismantle it.
Lauren Foster – 30:59
So I can’t help but feel there’s a certain amount of ideology there as well.
Claire Quigley – 31:03
that because I was thinking that
Lauren Foster – 31:03
Oh, absolutely, Lauren.
Sarah Camplin – 31:03
You know, why Oh, absolutely, Lauren.
Sarah Camplin – 31:03
I’m really glad you mentioned
Sarah Camplin – 31:06
I’m really glad.
Sarah Camplin – 31:08
industry.
Lauren Foster – 31:08
you mentioned that because I was thinking that you know, why around thinking of things.
Lauren Foster – 31:08
A growing
Lauren Foster – 31:09
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 31:10
It doesn’t make good economic sense at all.
Sarah Camplin – 31:20
No.
Sarah Camplin – 31:21
And I think Ben was, touched on that earlier, about how it’s not just about it isn’t just about money or let’s see what we can make money out of.
Sarah Camplin – 31:29
It’s ideological in the sense of, like, starving people in a way, starving people of ways to express themselves and filtering everything to this is what is art.
Sarah Camplin – 31:45
This is what is socially acceptable to be to to spend your leisure time.
Ben Stevenson – 31:49
Because from their perspective, if you’re a nurse, a teacher, or a care worker, or as Kemi Badenoch would say, here to wipe somebody’s bottom, then, you don’t need art.
Ben Stevenson – 32:01
It’s not for you.
Ben Stevenson – 32:03
That’s that is the ideology as
Lauren Foster – 32:06
What’s the idea?
Lauren Foster – 32:06
well.
Lauren Foster – 32:07
For it.
Lauren Foster – 32:08
I mean, they really have sort of, like, a made I don’t know what the made.
Lauren Foster – 32:15
It’s all like it’s almost like a b no.
Lauren Foster – 32:17
It’s like, you’re some sort of underclass status in a in a straight way.
Lauren Foster – 32:24
You know, that you’re not doing a 9 to 5 job and doing the same as everybody else, and, you know, you can’t possibly contributing anything to society.
Lauren Foster – 32:24
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 32:40
You know?
Lauren Foster – 32:40
Because it’s because it’s not your priorities to do all the same as what your neighbour does.
Lauren Foster – 32:47
And, and then, you know, and I sort of well, I’m not the only person that that feels that I that’s the general attitude, I don’t think.
Lauren Foster – 32:57
No.
Lauren Foster – 32:57
Of course.
Lauren Foster – 32:58
There wouldn’t be the artist work t shirts and such like, would there?
Lauren Foster – 33:02
But, yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 33:03
Well, you just you just sorry.
Sarah Camplin – 33:07
Just to say as well, Lauren, because you’re a musician, you’re in a band.
Sarah Camplin – 33:12
You know, that’s the other, part of the arts where, you know, everything’s become gentrified.
Sarah Camplin – 33:18
It’s difficult to get to get pub pubs are dying.
Sarah Camplin – 33:22
The venues are dying, aren’t they?
Sarah Camplin – 33:24
It’s not that they’re dying.
Sarah Camplin – 33:24
Gig venues.
Lauren Foster – 33:27
The Arts Council Grassroots Music Funding is underapplied for,
Lauren Foster – 33:33
mean, I tell people about it, and I don’t know if they take it in.
Sarah Camplin – 33:33
actually.
Lauren Foster – 33:38
But then again, some pub that’s having alternative bans on probably doesn’t even think they’re eligible for any funding.
Lauren Foster – 33:46
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 33:47
But the council, like the Calf Bar in Loughborough, the council have completely not helped by being stupid about the outside seating area just because there was a small name change when new owners came in.
Lauren Foster – 34:06
And then that meant they had to re-apply for the license for outdoor seating, and then it was reduced to 8 people needed CCTV and a table service.
Lauren Foster – 34:19
And they’re just like, we can’t do this anymore.
Lauren Foster – 34:21
We’ve got enough.
Lauren Foster – 34:22
They’re thinking, you know, loft for a while.
Lauren Foster – 34:24
It used to be lively.
Lauren Foster – 34:26
When the art college was the art college, and the students engaged with the town, now he’s dead on the weekend.
Lauren Foster – 34:35
You know, you get a lot on the Friday, Saturday night, and it and it can be just… dead.
Lauren Foster – 34:43
So what you know?
Lauren Foster – 34:44
So they’re not they’re not even encouraging, not supporting that.
Ben Stevenson – 34:49
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 34:52
You know?
Ben Stevenson – 34:52
Absolutely right.
Ben Stevenson – 34:53
I mean, even those,
Lauren Foster – 34:55
So I think I think
Claire Quigley – 34:56
have you been out in Loughborough?
Claire Quigley – 34:58
Have you
Speaker 7 – 34:58
been out in Loughborough lately?
Claire Quigley – 34:59
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 35:00
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 35:01
I studied in Loughborough so yeah.
Lauren Foster – 35:03
Oh, did you?
Sarah Camplin – 35:04
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 35:04
Alright.
Lauren Foster – 35:05
What year, Claire?
Claire Quigley – 35:07
Well, I did, I did a late masters in information management.
Claire Quigley – 35:12
So I graduated in 2011.
Speaker 7 – 35:15
Back
Claire Quigley – 35:15
and connect with people, so I still go out in Loughborough every now and then.
Speaker 7 – 35:15
Oh, right.
Lauren Foster – 35:20
Alright.
Lauren Foster – 35:20
Oh, you oh, right.
Lauren Foster – 35:21
You didn’t go to the art college in Loughborough?
Lauren Foster – 35:23
No.
Lauren Foster – 35:23
No.
Lauren Foster – 35:23
No.
Lauren Foster – 35:24
Alright.
Lauren Foster – 35:24
Oh, yeah.
Lauren Foster – 35:25
Because it
Sarah Camplin – 35:25
I went to
Claire Quigley – 35:26
Trenton back in the day.
Lauren Foster – 35:27
And the I mean, when I it used to be really lively in
Claire Quigley – 35:31
the
Lauren Foster – 35:31
town.
Lauren Foster – 35:33
Really lively.
Lauren Foster – 35:34
There were loads going on and so it’s like and you know?
Lauren Foster – 35:39
So it I mean, it must have.
Lauren Foster – 35:41
It must have contributed to the local economy.
Ben Stevenson – 35:46
Of course it does.
Ben Stevenson – 35:46
I mean, again, it’s about, you know, cinemas, restaurants, bars, you know, music venues, art galleries.
Ben Stevenson – 35:59
They all contribute, you know, whether that is, you know, directly or indirectly, you know, to employing people, through providing the service.
Ben Stevenson – 36:13
But I think, like you say, I mean, in a way, you know, I think particularly when we think about all of those kind of, you know, venues that used to exist or all those kind of, you know, platforms that used to exist for working class, voices in particular.
Ben Stevenson – 36:34
I mean, do you think that’s something that has also, been on the decline as well?
Sarah Camplin – 36:40
Like, sorry.
Sarah Camplin – 36:40
Oh, yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 36:42
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 36:43
So many places had suffered with the cost of living crisis and the energy costs, and so many places closed.
Claire Quigley – 36:50
I mean, I used to sell through a little gallery in Sherwood that’s closed down.
Claire Quigley – 36:55
So many places, similar story.
Claire Quigley – 36:58
And musicians really suffered in lockdown, you know, no couldn’t perform, couldn’t earn money, couldn’t do tours, and then lots of the venues have suffered as well similarly.
Claire Quigley – 37:11
So I think it’s a whole different landscape when it comes to the actual venues now.
Sarah Camplin – 37:19
Like, I was just gonna say the maze where we see the comedy I see the comedy gigs at the maze, and it was a real bit it’s a bit of a dive, but it was it was a great venue, and it was accessible.
Sarah Camplin – 37:19
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 37:31
It was accessible to, you know, what we what we were doing.
Sarah Camplin – 37:37
And, you know, we weren’t there, sort of, you know, cutting the coppers.
Sarah Camplin – 37:41
We were bringing people in, getting a bit of money raised for a local organization like Women’s Aid or Equation or somewhere like that.
Sarah Camplin – 37:51
And giving people, a stage, you know, providing that that that space and it being you know, I felt I mean, this is going back, gosh, about 10 years now.
Sarah Camplin – 38:01
It really was quite zeitgeisty at the time, you know, doing these gigs, and they always used to be packed.
Sarah Camplin – 38:10
And they were you know, things have really changed.
Sarah Camplin – 38:12
I mean, those figures I was showing you telling you from that’s only since 2017, a 60% cut in real terms.
Sarah Camplin – 38:20
Obviously, that that means places closing down, jobs not being available in the arts that are actually, you know, viable for people to live on, and all about that creating and changing the landscape of the arts is just is there’s just massive deprivation, you know, and it isn’t taken seriously.
Sarah Camplin – 38:43
It’s not it’s not seen as being profitable.
Sarah Camplin – 38:45
But like you say, it isn’t just about money.
Sarah Camplin – 38:47
There’s ideology behind it.
Claire Quigley – 38:52
I was just gonna add something which is slightly another tap, that I play for a couple of traditional dance sides.
Claire Quigley – 38:59
So I play for Yorkshire long sword side.
Claire Quigley – 39:02
So that’s a tradition that grew up in Yorkshire that we’re trying to keep going, and then also a Morris side in South Yorkshire, so Lord Conyers Morris.
Claire Quigley – 39:12
But there were teams all over the country.
Claire Quigley – 39:16
We don’t, in England, seem to value this as a tradition in the same way that Europe does.
Claire Quigley – 39:25
There doesn’t appear to be an element with sort of, oh, this might be a tourist attraction.
Claire Quigley – 39:30
Oh, this might be oh, they’re this side of going across to a little tour in Germany.
Claire Quigley – 39:36
Oh, let’s send some things from Nottingham.
Claire Quigley – 39:39
There’s just none of that anymore as they used to be, funding cuts, etcetera, etcetera.
Claire Quigley – 39:47
But there’s so much more funding for such things like that across the channel.
Claire Quigley – 39:55
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 39:56
So, yeah, we’re in danger of losing our traditions.
Ben Stevenson – 39:59
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 40:00
Exactly.
Ben Stevenson – 40:00
I think even, you know, I’m still constantly surprised living in and around Nottinghamshire.
Ben Stevenson – 40:09
Like, how little is made of Robin Hood?
Ben Stevenson – 40:11
Just as I given that that was my childhood, icon.
Ben Stevenson – 40:17
But you sort of you sort of do expect welcome to Robin Hood land, you know, to be, blasted all over the place
Claire Quigley – 40:26
discussed.
Lauren Foster – 40:26
and things like
Claire Quigley – 40:27
I can tell you when
Ben Stevenson – 40:28
I Let’s not talk about Robin Hood Energy.
Ben Stevenson – 40:31
That was totally different.
Ben Stevenson – 40:36
But, no.
Ben Stevenson – 40:37
I think you’re Boder?
Ben Stevenson – 40:40
Of course not.
Ben Stevenson – 40:42
There’s a in a 1000 years in 2000 years’ time, will we know who Jeff Bezos is?
Ben Stevenson – 40:46
Hopefully not.
Ben Stevenson – 40:47
If we haven’t set up a Mars
Sarah Camplin – 40:49
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 40:50
of Mars.
Ben Stevenson – 40:50
A colony
Sarah Camplin – 40:50
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 40:52
Remember Shakespeare.
Sarah Camplin – 40:53
We remember Shakespeare.
Sarah Camplin – 40:56
It’s everybody in the entertainment.
Sarah Camplin – 40:58
That has that endures.
Sarah Camplin – 41:00
It’s the arts that endures.
Sarah Camplin – 41:02
You know?
Lauren Foster – 41:03
Well, no.
Lauren Foster – 41:03
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 41:04
People know who The Beatles are, but they won’t know who Elon Musk is.
Lauren Foster – 41:09
They’ll know our Elvis is.
Lauren Foster – 41:10
We’re not Elon.
Ben Stevenson – 41:13
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 41:14
Very much so.
Lauren Foster – 41:15
Unless it becomes a term of abuse for a cat heady weirdo.
Lauren Foster – 41:19
You know?
Ben Stevenson – 41:21
Oh, I’m having a bit of a Musk day.
Sarah Camplin – 41:23
I think as well there’s an attitude, like you were saying, about the difference between Europe.
Sarah Camplin – 41:27
There is very much this kind of, I mean, me and Claire were talking about this as well, the last week or whatever.
Sarah Camplin – 41:33
You know, people being a bit like, oh, I don’t want to share, you know, this this kind of protective protectionist kind of thing.
Sarah Camplin – 41:43
You know, the this that they don’t wanna lose out.
Sarah Camplin – 41:46
I don’t wanna share that with you because I might I might lose out my, just, as things like, there’s a a a collective that’s moved into Stapleford.
Sarah Camplin – 41:56
They’re from but they’re actually from Sherwood.
Sarah Camplin – 41:58
So, frankly, they are they are middle class.
Sarah Camplin – 42:02
You know?
Sarah Camplin – 42:02
They’ve been able to buy this studio in Stapleford on for a year.
Sarah Camplin – 42:07
They had it got at least for a year.
Lauren Foster – 42:08
And they’re
Sarah Camplin – 42:08
Right.
Sarah Camplin – 42:09
doing things in and around Stapleford.
Sarah Camplin – 42:11
So I was like, oh, great.
Sarah Camplin – 42:12
I’ll go along and meet them, tell them what I’m doing, that I’m a local artist.
Sarah Camplin – 42:16
And they’re like, oh, where’s your studio?
Sarah Camplin – 42:18
You know what I mean?
Sarah Camplin – 42:19
Like, immediately, they were like, oh, are you?
Sarah Camplin – 42:21
Where’s your studio?
Sarah Camplin – 42:23
What are you?
Sarah Camplin – 42:23
Who are you?
Sarah Camplin – 42:24
You know?
Sarah Camplin – 42:25
So there was just this kind of attitude of, oh, we don’t wanna, you know, anyone to piss on our parade, if you like.
Sarah Camplin – 42:35
Even though I’m a local I live in Stapleford and I’m a local artist and I’m not, middle class, you know, I want to make my workshops accessible etcetera.
Sarah Camplin – 42:49
So it was just this very much like, oh, yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 42:51
Don’t wanna collect they talked to that club, but they’ve never been in touch.
Sarah Camplin – 42:51
We’ll be in touch.
Sarah Camplin – 42:54
And it was very much, you know, I followed her on Instagram.
Sarah Camplin – 42:57
She didn’t follow me back.
Sarah Camplin – 42:59
So that thing of, like, it’s not an equal, but just that that attitude of, well, you know, I I you know, I was talking to Claire about this, and you mentioned some artists who kind of, well, yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 43:09
Great.
Sarah Camplin – 43:09
Let’s look at renting.
Sarah Camplin – 43:11
I mean, we could do this as well, Lauren and Claire.
Sarah Camplin – 43:14
We could look at renting a space to sell some of our stuff or looking at places where we can work, you know, work together on.
Sarah Camplin – 43:21
We can get a wall somewhere.
Sarah Camplin – 43:23
It might be Loughborough.
Sarah Camplin – 43:24
It might be Nottingham, Sherwood, whatever.
Sarah Camplin – 43:27
Look at doing stuff like that so we can, you know, as I collectively overcome some of the stuff it’s if that’s, you know, gonna be easier.
Sarah Camplin – 43:37
Yep.
Sarah Camplin – 43:37
But, yeah, sometimes it just tends sometimes a bit of a protectionist thing, and that’s part of austerity.
Sarah Camplin – 43:42
That’s part of the capitalist ideology.
Sarah Camplin – 43:45
We’re in competition with each other.
Sarah Camplin – 43:45
You know?
Sarah Camplin – 43:47
Oh, yeah.
Lauren Foster – 43:48
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 43:50
Obviously Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 43:52
Competitiveness in the arts is a little bit weird to me.
Lauren Foster – 43:56
It seems really alien.
Ben Stevenson – 43:59
Well, it ought to be in and it go well, it ought it ought to be alien in a whole number of different realms within public society, shouldn’t it?
Lauren Foster – 44:08
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 44:08
It should be.
Lauren Foster – 44:09
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 44:10
You know, I think if you talk to most people I mean, there is a reason why most people support nationalization of key industries and, and utilities.
Ben Stevenson – 44:22
If you speak to most people, everybody would say that there’s probably somewhere where you go profit… Nah… You know?
Ben Stevenson – 44:30
Let’s not worry about profit in that in that regard.
Ben Stevenson – 44:34
And the art should be one of those universals, you know, in my book.
Ben Stevenson – 44:41
And it does start I think you’re right.
Ben Stevenson – 44:43
I mean, it does start from, you know, I mean, obviously, you’ve got a lot more, schools that have become academies.
Ben Stevenson – 44:54
You know, where is the funding at that level, for, arts education, for being able to even just something as simple as you know, I remember at my school, it was no problem for me to have, an instrument.
Ben Stevenson – 45:10
At my sister’s school, it was like, oh my god.
Ben Stevenson – 45:14
A nightmare trying to get a hold of it, you know, if you don’t have the money.
Lauren Foster – 45:21
I couldn’t afford to, learn an instrument at school other than in the basic music lessons.
Claire Quigley – 45:29
I think it’s a postcode lottery because I was remarkably lucky in Norwich.
Claire Quigley – 45:33
That was one thing they were good at.
Claire Quigley – 45:35
The rest of it was not so great, but they did fund their learning of instrument.
Ben Stevenson – 45:44
Well, I suppose
Claire Quigley – 45:45
I was just gonna say.
Claire Quigley – 45:49
Visited a public school and we show around an art centre.
Claire Quigley – 45:53
Oh my goodness.
Claire Quigley – 45:54
The resources they have.
Claire Quigley – 45:56
Okay.
Claire Quigley – 45:56
And they give everybody the creative suite of software on a laptop, and so many resources.
Claire Quigley – 46:05
So at least if they’ve got a backup career doing sort of graphic design, even if they make it in the arts Yes.
Claire Quigley – 46:13
It’s such a different setup.
Ben Stevenson – 46:16
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 46:17
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 46:17
Difference.
Ben Stevenson – 46:19
Oh, absolutely.
Ben Stevenson – 46:20
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 46:21
And it and it engenders yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 46:23
You know, engenders that sense of entitlement.
Sarah Camplin – 46:26
You know?
Sarah Camplin – 46:26
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 46:27
Well, actually, just sorry.
Sarah Camplin – 46:28
I just wanted to raise a point that we touched on it a little bit earlier about when Lauren touched on it going on about how, you know, when people are ill or they got they’re not and they’ve got men mental health, problems, they might have they might have, you know, what whatever that that that they’re unwell, and they’re being prescribed arts.
Sarah Camplin – 46:51
You know what?
Sarah Camplin – 46:51
That’s really insulting to me that they know that arts helps people with their mental health, just generally, just in society.
Sarah Camplin – 47:02
And yet they wanna prescribe it like some sort of plaster.
Sarah Camplin – 47:07
Go, well, there we go.
Sarah Camplin – 47:07
We’ll put you on a 6 week painting course or whatever.
Sarah Camplin – 47:12
Did they know that these things are important, and it’s been devalued and belittled in this way and commodified in this way?
Sarah Camplin – 47:20
I find that so insulting.
Lauren Foster – 47:24
And there’s no evening courses anymore.
Lauren Foster – 47:26
There’s no adult education on this apart from the evening.
Sarah Camplin – 47:30
I’ve been looking.
Sarah Camplin – 47:30
I know.
Sarah Camplin – 47:31
Okay.
Sarah Camplin – 47:31
You get the odd 6 week course or something like that.
Sarah Camplin – 47:34
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 47:35
You don’t get you know, you could go and do a night class for a year that would run for a year.
Lauren Foster – 47:39
I’m just gonna go off the tangent at a brief moan about there not being any funding if you want to go into teaching adult education.
Sarah Camplin – 47:48
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 47:48
Because I Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 47:49
at that as well.
Sarah Camplin – 47:49
I looked
Lauren Foster – 47:50
There’s no free training for it.
Lauren Foster – 47:53
And that’s because that’s been devalued as well.
Lauren Foster – 47:56
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 47:57
You’re not supposed to do lifelong learning, are you?
Lauren Foster – 48:00
So to just do something and just stick in the same thing.
Ben Stevenson – 48:05
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 48:06
I hate paying myself for the rest of your life.
Claire Quigley – 48:09
It used to be European funding for things like that because I used to work in the career service, and we used to get funding for different training and.
Ben Stevenson – 48:18
I don’t I don’t lifelong learning fund.
Sarah Camplin – 48:21
We had the UNL learning
Ben Stevenson – 48:22
fund at the time.
Ben Stevenson – 48:24
It was all done now.
Claire Quigley – 48:26
So we really do miss some of that European funding for that sort of thing.
Claire Quigley – 48:26
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 48:31
The career building, you know, I’ve come out of this career.
Claire Quigley – 48:34
Now what do I do next?
Claire Quigley – 48:36
Or here’s the funding so that you can train while you’re still working.
Claire Quigley – 48:41
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 48:41
A lot of that’s gone.
Lauren Foster – 48:42
I mean, I went back in yeah.
Lauren Foster – 48:45
I went back into, higher education through.
Lauren Foster – 48:53
Lifelong learning at the University of Leicester.
Lauren Foster – 48:58
I did a brilliant course, and it was in the evenings.
Lauren Foster – 49:03
So it was a real good mixture of people in in the class.
Lauren Foster – 49:08
But the university just got rid of that department.
Lauren Foster – 49:11
They pulled all the funding for it. And, that’s why I think the university had changed.
Lauren Foster – 49:17
And that I think that was ideological, to be honest.
Lauren Foster – 49:21
Because it wouldn’t have made that a massive amount of difference.
Lauren Foster – 49:25
But at the same time, they got bloody David Willettson as chancellor.
Lauren Foster – 49:31
And that was all like, oh, yes.
Lauren Foster – 49:31
You know what I mean?
Lauren Foster – 49:33
We’re going to be going towards sciences and
Ben Stevenson – 49:37
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 49:37
You know?
Lauren Foster – 49:38
And I think the, you know, the people who start devaluing the, English, you know, humanities department in general.
Lauren Foster – 49:45
But yeah.
Lauren Foster – 49:45
But, I mean, Vaughan was and that was the, brilliant adult education organization offering, you know, offering degree level courses and degrees.
Lauren Foster – 49:59
And now it’s down to having hardly any funding, and they do still do a few things.
Lauren Foster – 50:09
But they’re mainly based down at the, adult education centre in Leicester City Centre now and sort of do day courses, things like that.
Ben Stevenson – 50:20
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 50:21
But there there’s no way I’d have gone on to do a master’s if I hadn’t have had access to that.
Ben Stevenson – 50:29
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 50:30
So, I don’t feel the, you know, I don’t feel that the tourists tried to shut down every avenue for people that were trying to do something other than what they thought they should be doing.
Ben Stevenson – 50:44
really a care home.
Lauren Foster – 50:44
I really do
Sarah Camplin – 50:47
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 50:47
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 50:48
You know, I got a place on a on a PhD course down in it was a social and cultural studies down, at the University of Kent in Canterbury.
Sarah Camplin – 50:58
So I attended, I started the course and I I relocated, but I didn’t get any funding.
Sarah Camplin – 51:09
I applied for funding, but I didn’t I didn’t get it.
Sarah Camplin – 51:13
Again, there was a lot of a focus on, you know, the STEM subjects.
Sarah Camplin – 51:18
But this was, when I was about so it’s 20 years ago.
Sarah Camplin – 51:22
It’s supposed to I wasn’t that young.
Sarah Camplin – 51:23
I was 30.
Sarah Camplin – 51:26
But, you know, the statistics, they working class people do get onto these courses, but the dropout rate is obviously a lot higher for people from working class backgrounds.
Sarah Camplin – 51:40
Again, it feels a bit like, you know, you’re not really gonna get it’s a class ceiling, basically.
Sarah Camplin – 51:49
That’s how that’s how it felt for me.
Sarah Camplin – 51:51
I felt that in in the workplace as well.
Lauren Foster – 51:54
I really did feel it.
Lauren Foster – 51:54
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 51:57
More at Lester than De Monfort, to be honest.
Lauren Foster – 51:57
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 52:03
So maybe you shouldn’t quote me on that.
Lauren Foster – 52:05
I don’t know.
Lauren Foster – 52:06
I mean, I think they’re probably trying to make an effort now.
Sarah Camplin – 52:10
Oh, I felt it when I started my masters at University of Nottingham.
Sarah Camplin – 52:14
I actually really fight for my place there.
Sarah Camplin – 52:16
I felt a bit like, oh, well, you went to Wolverhampton.
Sarah Camplin – 52:19
You know, you’re working class.
Sarah Camplin – 52:20
You’re not really what we’re looking for.
Sarah Camplin – 52:24
You’re not really I mean, it was a bit like that.
Sarah Camplin – 52:27
You know, as I so I felt like that when, started the PhD, and it was just a bit like, well, you’re not really gonna take you know, do it feel like that’s been taken seriously to get something done, and you had to drop out.
Lauren Foster – 52:37
So it wasn’t it wasn’t necessarily in the, creative writing department.
Lauren Foster – 52:41
It was in the overall English department that I could see, that I could you know, people’s attitudes.
Lauren Foster – 52:51
Most people don’t even try to hide them, to be honest.
Lauren Foster – 52:55
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 52:55
Or if they do, they do it so poorly.
Lauren Foster – 52:57
It’s you know?
Ben Stevenson – 53:00
Well, I think there’s been such a shift in education, hasn’t there, over the number of years?
Ben Stevenson – 53:04
Again, we were talking about art for art’s sake, and the idea of education for education’s sake is Itself you know, again, it’s all got to be about demonstrating employability, hasn’t it, and transferable skills, and things like that.
Ben Stevenson – 53:21
And I’ve read I’ve read and seen great articles with people arguing, you know, oh, fine motor skills.
Ben Stevenson – 53:28
Arc and Probe fine motor skills, which are obviously very necessary for surgeons, and, you know, and for people like that.
Ben Stevenson – 53:39
So the
Lauren Foster – 53:40
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 53:41
But it’s
Claire Quigley – 53:41
It moved away from everything’s got to be sort of financially viable, hasn’t it?
Claire Quigley – 53:46
And the employability Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 53:48
Comes into that.
Claire Quigley – 53:48
Oh, we can’t go off and study an arts degree without, well, what are you gonna do after?
Claire Quigley – 53:52
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 53:53
I know.
Lauren Foster – 53:53
I I mean, I was getting that.
Lauren Foster – 53:53
I know.
Lauren Foster – 53:55
I was getting, what are you doing matters in creative writing?
Lauren Foster – 53:58
Well, what sort of job are you going to do after that?
Lauren Foster – 54:01
Oh, I don’t know.
Lauren Foster – 54:03
Maybe I’ll window cleaner.
Lauren Foster – 54:11
Exactly.
Lauren Foster – 54:13
This was ironically coming from someone that did philosophy in the sixties, worked for a bit, spent most of the time off on the sick, and essentially, you know, claim disability benefits for the next 50 years.
Lauren Foster – 54:27
But
Sarah Camplin – 54:29
I don’t know.
Lauren Foster – 54:31
You tell me, mate.
Claire Quigley – 54:32
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 54:34
Brilliant.
Sarah Camplin – 54:35
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 54:35
Well, once you
Ben Stevenson – 54:36
say last 2 years.
Claire Quigley – 54:37
Wanna say, yeah, before we wrap up Yes.
Claire Quigley – 54:41
I’ll just say that, different formats of art the arts are now acceptable.
Claire Quigley – 54:47
So when I try to exhibit photo montage, photos weren’t accepted, not even with this photo back in the eighties.
Claire Quigley – 54:54
You know?
Claire Quigley – 54:55
In open art exhibitions, photos and textiles were excluded.
Claire Quigley – 55:00
Now at least everything is a bit more inclusive when it comes to what format things are in and
Claire Quigley – 55:06
Yeah.
Claire Quigley – 55:06
You know?
Claire Quigley – 55:08
Yeah
Sarah Camplin – 55:10
Absolutely.
Sarah Camplin – 55:10
And I think one of the things I wanted to kind of end on was a bit, you know, positive note as well because, you know, there are lots of pops and things that and Lauren’s mentioned a couple.
Sarah Camplin – 55:23
There are things out there.
Sarah Camplin – 55:24
There are the open, studio exhibitions.
Sarah Camplin – 55:28
There is a possibility of connecting with our other artists in in local in the local area and supporting other artists.
Sarah Camplin – 55:35
And, I’ve just shared a link to campaign for the arts.
Sarah Camplin – 55:42
There are this is not something, like, you know, we’re not talking, in in just a hot air.
Sarah Camplin – 55:48
This is something that’s gaining traction.
Sarah Camplin – 55:52
You know, people want art, for art’s sake because of, because we have culture, because we have that need to express ourselves.
Sarah Camplin – 56:04
We can’t we literally can’t live without it.
Sarah Camplin – 56:08
And, I think that when we when we try when they make us try, it makes us ill.
Lauren Foster – 56:15
Yep.
Sarah Camplin – 56:15
You know?
Ben Stevenson – 56:17
Yeah.
Ben Stevenson – 56:18
Go on, Lauren.
Lauren Foster – 56:19
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 56:20
I have to do that or forget Ben.
Lauren Foster – 56:22
I just
Claire Quigley – 56:23
I’m one
Lauren Foster – 56:23
of those people.
Lauren Foster – 56:24
I think so.
Lauren Foster – 56:24
It goes out to my head.
Lauren Foster – 56:26
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 56:27
I I just want I want a very quick moan about our office terms coming into the arts sphere, which I absolutely hate.
Lauren Foster – 56:35
Transferable skills is one of them, but also skill sharing and hot desking.
Lauren Foster – 56:42
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 56:43
And just anything office y, the language, I just find it mind numbingly boring.
Lauren Foster – 56:53
And as soon as anyone mentions that in in anything, I do glaze over.
Lauren Foster – 56:59
I mean, I’ve just listen to myself. Hot desk.
Lauren Foster – 57:06
Why do why?
Lauren Foster – 57:08
This is from my experience, like, over this last year with, you know, leave you boring clinical office terms out of my artistic life…Why? Leave them at the door. Do not bring them near me.You know?
Lauren Foster – 57:30
Bug her off.
Sarah Camplin – 57:31
Fair enough.
Sarah Camplin – 57:32
I shall bear that in mind.
Sarah Camplin – 57:34
Keep
Ben Stevenson – 57:35
keep the managerial bollocks out
Sarah Camplin – 57:36
of here.
Sarah Camplin – 57:37
I still bear that in mind when we next, touch base, and I, keep you in the loop.
Sarah Camplin – 57:42
That one.
Lauren Foster – 57:44
No.
Lauren Foster – 57:45
It’s not
Ben Stevenson – 57:46
Let’s not forget to cascade our information down.
Lauren Foster – 57:50
Yeah.
Lauren Foster – 57:51
But it’s like it is part of the coming in with it.
Lauren Foster – 57:54
The coming in, like, oh, well, it’s got to be commercially viable.
Lauren Foster – 57:58
So we’ve gotta, like you know?
Lauren Foster – 57:58
You know?
Sarah Camplin – 58:02
I think this is the thing.
Sarah Camplin – 58:02
Yeah.
Sarah Camplin – 58:03
We don’t not that I think it’s about profit, is it?
Sarah Camplin – 58:06
If we can earn enough to live on and have a nice life and do what we love doing, you know, I I’d be happy.
Sarah Camplin – 58:14
You know?
Sarah Camplin – 58:15
I don’t need to I don’t need to become a millionaire.
Sarah Camplin – 58:18
You know?
Sarah Camplin – 58:18
No.
Sarah Camplin – 58:19
Carry on doing what I’m doing.
Sarah Camplin – 58:20
But, again, this is all you gotta justify that you’re making profit.
Sarah Camplin – 58:23
You gotta justify, you know, these arts fund the funding things now are so in the SLC, there’s untapped stuff, and we should we should get I should be, you know, looking into that and spend more time doing that and have more confidence.
Sarah Camplin – 58:37
But they just make it harder and harder every time.
Sarah Camplin – 58:40
And like you say, if it’s so random as to who, you know, is allocation money as well, just you just lose confidence in that in that
Ben Stevenson – 58:47
I think we’ve definitely, covered a covered a fair few bases.
Muhammed Mustafa – 59:20
Wow.
Muhammed Mustafa – 59:21
That was such a thoughtful and engaging session.
Muhammed Mustafa – 59:24
We hope all of you enjoyed it as much as we did.
Muhammed Mustafa – 59:27
Thank you for liking and sharing our content.
Muhammed Mustafa – 59:30
In our next episode, we will be joined by Henry Fowler, founder of the Stripe Map, a trade union educationalist and an organizer.
Muhammed Mustafa – 59:40
We look forward to an another insightful conversation.
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